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#1 User is offline   Ray S 

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:39 PM

That is the question, I have a couple of large cuttings, and several rooted that just arrived, looking for general consensus on rooting the cuttings. It helps, it doesn't help. Thanks.
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#2 User is offline   Diana 

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 01:05 PM

There's been an enormous amount of debate on other forums about using an egg to speed root development. It ranges from quasi-scientific test using a set of cuttings under controlled conditions to fanatical cheerleading to healthy skepticism. I personally don't put much credence to reports of egg-ceptional rooting in heated greenhouses under blazing lights... ah, well yeah, it will root, egg or no egg. Other people reported no difference when they rooted with their usual techniques.

Then there's a discussion on probiotics, which I hold judgment on until there's some science around these claims. Ditto for rooting in anaerobic conditions... unconvinced.

Last year I rooted most of my cuttings over eggs... and also put up a 6x8 HFGH. There's no way I can conclude the egg made a difference. One observation: the roots did wrap around the egg as it slowly evaporated the contents. Important safety tip: if you hear a popping noise, back away quickly!

This year all my cuttings from last weekend's foray to the SCPS sale and a few excellent ones from Hetty will get the egg, but I'm waiting until the bottoms swell before I set them up. Conclusion? I want to believe the egg helps, and it didn't hurt (see 'popping noise' for notable exception). I'm by no means an expert, and sometimes I feel party to plumeria genocide... :-(

On the flip side, I am seriously impressed with the blowtorching of newly cut ends. The cuttings from Viv's party look like they were cut yesterday... and it's been at least 6 months. ...diana
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#3 User is offline   Jandey 

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 02:35 PM

I'm glad you addressed the swelling, Diana. I've been wondering if the one-to-two week wait for a dried end after cutting is enough time to wait before potting up or water-rooting. I've always just potted up after a week or so but wondered if there's anything to the idea of waiting until the cambium(?) layer swells before trying to pot or place in rain water to root. Any more advice you have is appreciated.

Jennifer
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#4 User is offline   Diana 

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 03:35 PM

The reason isn't so much about rooting as preventing rot. Most of the cuttings I've lost have been from bottom rot. I'm making a assumption that if I wait until the cambium swells, it's ready to start pushing out roots and will be fully calloused. If it's not ready, it's more likely to rot.

I just peaked in the GH at the large cuttings from last fall: the ones that were torched look amazingly new, but haven't started swelling; the one simply cut and calloused is desiccated.

Lest you think a mad woman in a welding helmet, beer in hand, is incinerating her garden - this technique came from Bud G. :huh:
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#5 User is offline   Jenni 

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 09:14 AM

I am xurious about the torching. This is the firsy I have heard of it. Can someone expound further?
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#6 User is offline   Diana 

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 01:41 PM

I can paraphrase what I heard second hand from several SoCal folks at Viv's garden party, including Irma (of Irma Bryan fame), Viv and Raul.

Bud is also a hobby welder, and decided to try sealing the newly cut end with his torch. My best guess is that it cauterized the tip and prevented both rot and sap loss. My cuttings don't show damage from the flames.

Here's an excerpt from some emails we swapped about this experiment ...

... a group of them, including Bud Guillot are experimenting with a new growing technique. It involves using a hand torch to burn the cut end of the plumeria cutting, sort of cauterizing the end, soaking it in undiluted seaweed emulsion for about 10 minutes, then planting it immediately. He said several people have tried it with great success. The seaweed immersion started as an accident.

The inspiration for torching the cut end is a forest fire. You know how when a fire happens in a forest, it seems to regenerate very quickly. It probably has something to do with tricking the cutting into feeling like it's going to die, so it sends growth hormones to save itself. Plus the cutting is sealed, so water isn't absorbed and prevents rotting.

Raul demonstrated by taking a cutting from one of his trees. He cut it at an angle to increase the rooting surface, then used the blowtorch to burn the freshly cut white wood. He did it perhaps for a minute or two. He let that cool, then gave it another round of torch. He said he likes to do it twice.


I'm personally not convinced about the forest fire rational, as I believe this only applies to plants that naturally regenerate after fires, such as natives of chapparal and fynbos communities.

Some people are trying this out, and if I hear more I'll post. Interestingly enough, the unburnt cuttings have swelled for rooting, but the burnt ones have not, so I don't know how will it will root this summer. Time will tell!

Should be an interesting discussion if it works
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#7 User is offline   fishjunky 

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 02:20 PM

View PostDiana, on 14 April 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

I can paraphrase what I heard second hand from several SoCal folks at Viv's garden party, including Irma (of Irma Bryan fame), Viv and Raul.

Bud is also a hobby welder, and decided to try sealing the newly cut end with his torch. My best guess is that it cauterized the tip and prevented both rot and sap loss. My cuttings don't show damage from the flames.

Here's an excerpt from some emails we swapped about this experiment ...

... a group of them, including Bud Guillot are experimenting with a new growing technique. It involves using a hand torch to burn the cut end of the plumeria cutting, sort of cauterizing the end, soaking it in undiluted seaweed emulsion for about 10 minutes, then planting it immediately. He said several people have tried it with great success. The seaweed immersion started as an accident.

The inspiration for torching the cut end is a forest fire. You know how when a fire happens in a forest, it seems to regenerate very quickly. It probably has something to do with tricking the cutting into feeling like it's going to die, so it sends growth hormones to save itself. Plus the cutting is sealed, so water isn't absorbed and prevents rotting.

Raul demonstrated by taking a cutting from one of his trees. He cut it at an angle to increase the rooting surface, then used the blowtorch to burn the freshly cut white wood. He did it perhaps for a minute or two. He let that cool, then gave it another round of torch. He said he likes to do it twice.


I'm personally not convinced about the forest fire rational, as I believe this only applies to plants that naturally regenerate after fires, such as natives of chapparal and fynbos communities.

Some people are trying this out, and if I hear more I'll post. Interestingly enough, the unburnt cuttings have swelled for rooting, but the burnt ones have not, so I don't know how will it will root this summer. Time will tell!

Should be an interesting discussion if it works

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#8 User is offline   fishjunky 

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 02:24 PM

Sorry for the hiccup folks.
Diana this is really interesting stuff and makes a lot of sense. Could you give more detail on the "egg" process?

Thanks
><)))'>---fj
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#9 User is offline   Diana 

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 05:10 PM

It's pretty simple, actually. Use whatever rooting method works best for you and add a whole egg to the medium, about an inch below the bottom of the cutting. As the moisture is slowly released, the roots will wrap round the egg. This method comes from rooting techniques of other plants... forgot which. There's been discussions about probiotics being introduced and driving the rooting process, but I'm waiting to see a scientific discussion that verifies this.

I use rooting tubes in my greenhouse, and only root in warm weather since, no matter what you do, you need heat. By end of summer I hope to have a better opinion of ... To Egg or Not to Egg.

Has anyone else tried it?
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#10 User is offline   jag 

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 06:55 PM

I came across this site when trying to find more information on this subject:

http://plumeria2u.co...page.html?id=20

I am going to give it a try. My wife will really think I am nuts when she finds me trying it.

Hetty, this is a UK site and it has your plumeria for sale. This is the only place I have seen it offered.
Joe

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#11 User is offline   Jenni 

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Posted 16 April 2011 - 07:11 PM

Thanks for the info on torching. Interesting. I myself have tried the egg method this year for the first time. I have one large cutting and two smaller ones. I also transplanted 6 plumeria trees. I used the raw egg on each one. So far, so good. Easily done. The cuttings are starting to wake up, it has been about 4 weeks.
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#12 User is offline   ijplume 

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Posted 17 April 2011 - 08:28 PM

To add to what Diana said about torching the bottom of cuttings prior to rooting, I tried it last summer with a bunch of Guillot Sunset cuttings and all rooted. Then in the Fall I torched a bunch of cuttings that I needed to hold over winter. I started rooting them about 6 weeks ago. Attached are two photos from this batch showing the roots developing. I don't know if it works better than regular rooting methods ... a control group would be needed to test it. Irene








View PostDiana, on 14 April 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

I can paraphrase what I heard second hand from several SoCal folks at Viv's garden party, including Irma (of Irma Bryan fame), Viv and Raul.

Bud is also a hobby welder, and decided to try sealing the newly cut end with his torch. My best guess is that it cauterized the tip and prevented both rot and sap loss. My cuttings don't show damage from the flames.

Here's an excerpt from some emails we swapped about this experiment ...

... a group of them, including Bud Guillot are experimenting with a new growing technique. It involves using a hand torch to burn the cut end of the plumeria cutting, sort of cauterizing the end, soaking it in undiluted seaweed emulsion for about 10 minutes, then planting it immediately. He said several people have tried it with great success. The seaweed immersion started as an accident.

The inspiration for torching the cut end is a forest fire. You know how when a fire happens in a forest, it seems to regenerate very quickly. It probably has something to do with tricking the cutting into feeling like it's going to die, so it sends growth hormones to save itself. Plus the cutting is sealed, so water isn't absorbed and prevents rotting.

Raul demonstrated by taking a cutting from one of his trees. He cut it at an angle to increase the rooting surface, then used the blowtorch to burn the freshly cut white wood. He did it perhaps for a minute or two. He let that cool, then gave it another round of torch. He said he likes to do it twice.


I'm personally not convinced about the forest fire rational, as I believe this only applies to plants that naturally regenerate after fires, such as natives of chapparal and fynbos communities.

Some people are trying this out, and if I hear more I'll post. Interestingly enough, the unburnt cuttings have swelled for rooting, but the burnt ones have not, so I don't know how will it will root this summer. Time will tell!

Should be an interesting discussion if it works

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: Burn1.JPG
  • Attached Image: Burn2.JPG

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#13 User is offline   Ray S 

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 01:54 PM

Thank you so much every one for all the discussion, I have learned a lot. Diana, when you talk about the cutting swelling, is it standing in water or just sitting on the shelf and the warmth of spring triggers it?
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#14 User is offline   Diana 

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Posted 20 April 2011 - 04:21 PM

I just let it sit on a shelf in my GH. In the past I've water rooted in an old aquarium with a heater and pump, but no longer have the setup. For that, the cutting sat on top of kitty litter in a perforated tennis can, and the water level was at the top of the litter. Worked great.
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