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Plumeria ..mites ? What do ya think Plumerians ? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   HBDAVE 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:10 PM

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp87/PLUMERIADAVE/002-10.jpg

Well what cha think and what do you think is best to use ? I have a Systemic insect killer from Green Light that is 12 month protection or a Isotox insect killer from Ortho that is not a Systemic. The curling of the leaves is starting to go through my whole patch , first time in about 17 years , UGH! I usually just snap off the leaves but there are to many. Is this Mites ?
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#2 User is offline   Dutchlady 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:14 PM

Yes I do believe you have mites. Use a miticide, and again in two weeks.
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#3 User is offline   sharlan 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:01 PM

I have that on one, didn't know what it was.
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#4 User is offline   Lakers3221 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:19 PM

Could be mites or it could be the funky weather. I have seen a bunch around here that have been growing outside in different neighborhoods that look just like that. You need a magnifying glass to look really closely to see the buggars.
There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.
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#5 User is offline   lopaka 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 07:29 PM

Looking at those lower leaves that are a weird yellow and the shine on the leaves I would guess you already use a oil base product?
Did you use neem oil on these?
Orthenex was the best cheap product for mites and other bugs but it was pulled off the shelves and is no longer available..

I went to Home Depot last night to buy some more skeeter stuff when I just happen to read a label of a ant product next to my skeeter product.
Guess what?
This product by Ortho has 50% Acephate in it and it is a powder form and Orthenex had 4% Acephate in it.
http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/ortho/outdoor_bug_killers/fire_ants/image/Orthene09_std.jpg

I bet you could mix this stuff with water (mix until water is clear) and use it as a spray..
If anyone with mite problems want to try this on a common plumie give it a shot and let us know the results..
Since this has 50% Acephate in it that means this cheap $12 dollar product will go a long long way..
Also use a sticker or spreader since this is a powder to help keep it on the plant..
Here is the label for the old Orthenex which had other chems in it like fungicides..
Orthenex mixture rate was 2Tbs per gallon of water so you will have to adjust for the 50% Acephate.
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#6 User is offline   jag 

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:29 PM

View Postlopaka, on Jul 14 2009, 08:29 PM, said:

Looking at those lower leaves that are a weird yellow and the shine on the leaves I would guess you already use a oil base product?
Did you use neem oil on these?
Orthenex was the best cheap product for mites and other bugs but it was pulled off the shelves and is no longer available..

I went to Home Depot last night to buy some more skeeter stuff when I just happen to read a label of a ant product next to my skeeter product.
Guess what?
This product by Ortho has 50% Acephate in it and it is a powder form and Orthenex had 4% Acephate in it.
http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/ortho/outdoor_bug_killers/fire_ants/image/Orthene09_std.jpg

I bet you could mix this stuff with water (mix until water is clear) and use it as a spray..
If anyone with mite problems want to try this on a common plumie give it a shot and let us know the results..
Since this has 50% Acephate in it that means this cheap $12 dollar product will go a long long way..
Also use a sticker or spreader since this is a powder to help keep it on the plant..
Here is the label for the old Orthenex which had other chems in it like fungicides..
Orthenex mixture rate was 2Tbs per gallon of water so you will have to adjust for the 50% Acephate.


Lopaka, when they sold the 75% Orthene wettable powder, I used add enough water to make a spreadable paste and paint the base of my River Birch trees to control aphids which were a big problem. I would paint about a two or three foot band around the base of the trees. The tree would absorb the orthene through the bark and it worked. This year I used the Ant Killer to make the paste.

I have had a problem with tip rot on mainly my red plumerias. I understand that is a result of insects eating the tender tips. I was thinking of experimenting with painting a section of the bark on a few reds when I put them up for the winter to see if that would prevent the tip rot next season. Do you think it will work?
Joe

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#7 User is offline   HBDAVE 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 03:27 PM

View PostLakers3221, on Jul 14 2009, 05:19 PM, said:

Could be mites or it could be the funky weather. I have seen a bunch around here that have been growing outside in different neighborhoods that look just like that. You need a magnifying glass to look really closely to see the buggars.

Ya ..I was hoping it was weather or shock , i transplanted it to the ground this spring. Oh and i took a magnifying glass
and took a good close look...mites .My neighbors already think i am a Plumeria freak and seeing me with a magnifying glass out in the front yard looking at leaves ..well now they have no doubt !
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#8 User is offline   Lakers3221 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 03:31 PM

View PostHBDAVE, on Jul 15 2009, 04:27 PM, said:

View PostLakers3221, on Jul 14 2009, 05:19 PM, said:

Could be mites or it could be the funky weather. I have seen a bunch around here that have been growing outside in different neighborhoods that look just like that. You need a magnifying glass to look really closely to see the buggars.

Ya ..I was hoping it was weather or shock , i transplanted it to the ground this spring. Oh and i took a magnifying glass
and took a good close look...mites .My neighbors already think i am a Plumeria freak and seeing me with a magnifying glass out in the front yard looking at leaves ..well now they have no doubt !

Sorry to hear that. I have been using Avid and it works great. Quite pricey though.
There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.
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#9 User is offline   lopaka 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 05:39 PM

View Postjag, on Jul 15 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

I understand that is a result of insects eating the tender tips. I was thinking of experimenting with painting a section of the bark on a few reds when I put them up for the winter to see if that would prevent the tip rot next season. Do you think it will work?

I would say no because most of the insects that attack plumies come from the air or across the tops of the plumies..
Snails are the only thing I know that come from the soil and work their way up..
By the way a snail attack will look exactly like a katydid attack the only difference is that the katydids hit the top leaves versus the snails hitting the lower leaves..
I would mix this stuff and use it as a spray with a spreader and spray the leaves..
Interesting info about your paste mix it might deter snails..

View PostHBDAVE, on Jul 15 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

Ya ..I was hoping it was weather or shock , i transplanted it to the ground this spring. Oh and i took a magnifying glass
and took a good close look...mites .My neighbors already think i am a Plumeria freak and seeing me with a magnifying glass out in the front yard looking at leaves ..well now they have no doubt !

I spent 20 mins getting all the info for you and you didn't even reply..
I feel like a red headed step child..
:lol: :)
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#10 User is offline   jag 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:41 PM

View Postlopaka, on Jul 15 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

View Postjag, on Jul 15 2009, 12:29 AM, said:

I understand that is a result of insects eating the tender tips. I was thinking of experimenting with painting a section of the bark on a few reds when I put them up for the winter to see if that would prevent the tip rot next season. Do you think it will work?

I would say no because most of the insects that attack plumies come from the air or across the tops of the plumies..
Snails are the only thing I know that come from the soil and work their way up..
By the way a snail attack will look exactly like a katydid attack the only difference is that the katydids hit the top leaves versus the snails hitting the lower leaves..
I would mix this stuff and use it as a spray with a spreader and spray the leaves..
Interesting info about your paste mix it might deter snails..

View PostHBDAVE, on Jul 15 2009, 07:27 PM, said:

Ya ..I was hoping it was weather or shock , i transplanted it to the ground this spring. Oh and i took a magnifying glass
and took a good close look...mites .My neighbors already think i am a Plumeria freak and seeing me with a magnifying glass out in the front yard looking at leaves ..well now they have no doubt !

I spent 20 mins getting all the info for you and you didn't even reply..
I feel like a red headed step child..
:lol: :)


Lopaka, the orthene is systemic and is absorbed into the plant so that any insect that eats it will be killed.

However, here is something you may be interested in. I read smewhere that snails are repelled by copper. If you clear an area of snails and then surround it with copper, snails will not cross the barrier. That can be expensive for a large bed. My wife has a shaded flower bed with several hostas. In our humid climate snails are a big problem and they feast on hostas.

I was told to alternate between a copper sulfate fungicide and Fertilome stystemic fungicide to control the rust on my plumerias. Because of what I had read about the snails and copper, when I sprayed with the copper sulfate fungicide, I decided to spray the hostas and the ground around them. I don't know if it is just a coincidence, but it seems that since I started doing that I have not had a problem with snails.

http://www.usc.edu/C...jects/J1920.pdf

http://www.recycleno...SnailsSlugs.PDF
Joe

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#11 User is offline   lopaka 

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:18 PM

View Postjag, on Jul 15 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

Lopaka, the orthene is systemic and is absorbed into the plant so that any insect that eats it will be killed.

Yes but the problem with mites is their eggs..
The only thing I seen work is the expensive products like Avid,Floramite,etc..
If you use the cheap stuff you will need to spray every 3-5 days to control the infestation..
Remember spider mites are arachnids just like spiders and are immune to a lot of pesticides..
For a quick kill on the mites I sometimes spray them with Rubbing alcohol I don't even mix it with water..
The alcohol evaporates before the plant can absorb it and it works great on aphids too..
Be patience your hard work will pay off..


Quote

However, here is something you may be interested in. I read smewhere that snails are repelled by copper. If you clear an area of snails and then surround it with copper, snails will not cross the barrier. That can be expensive for a large bed. My wife has a shaded flower bed with several hostas. In our humid climate snails are a big problem and they feast on hostas.
I was told to alternate between a copper sulfate fungicide and Fertilome stystemic fungicide to control the rust on my plumerias. Because of what I had read about the snails and copper, when I sprayed with the copper sulfate fungicide, I decided to spray the hostas and the ground around them. I don't know if it is just a coincidence, but it seems that since I started doing that I have not had a problem with snails.


Snails down here in South Florida are relentless and thank god for my Amevias they keep them under control..
Ok for snails you can buy roof flashing from Home Depot or Lowes it comes in a 50 foot roll and they have it in copper and other metals..
I had great success with a bowl of cheap beer left out near the plant..
Leave the dead snails in there to attract the other snails..

....rust on the plumie is another story!
:)
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#12 User is offline   ThePlantPusher 

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:15 AM

http://plumeriaforum.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />HBDAVE, on Jul 14 2009, 03:10 PM, said:


Well what cha think and what do you think is best to use ? I have a Systemic insect killer from Green Light that is 12 month protection or a Isotox insect killer from Ortho that is not a Systemic. The curling of the leaves is starting to go through my whole patch , first time in about 17 years , UGH! I usually just snap off the leaves but there are to many. Is this Mites ?

Hey Dave,

I was talking with a some plumie people who said for what ever reason the mite problem this season has been horrible. John at Jungle Jacks even said that he noticed this season that he is spraying more often because the mite situation because it is really bad this year, worst that he has seen.
The other thing for Southern California growers is Mildew, a lot of people were complaining about that and noticed their leaves stressing out from it and growing out ugly. I was the lucky recipient of both this season :rolleyes: :lol:
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#13 User is offline   Dutchlady 

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 07:33 AM

I can confirm that in Florida too, the mite problem has been worse than in recent years.
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#14 User is offline   Bradsbudsandblooms 

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 06:03 PM

Floramite's specs on line say it is not effective against rust mites (or broadleaf for that matter)-these are the main culprit in plumerias. Spider mites should not be confused with the leaf damage being shown in the picture, and, what we have all seen at least to some degree this year. Rotate between AVID--then two weeks later hit them with FORBID. This'll knock them out for quite a while as after the AVID kills the adults, their eggs hatch within a couple of weeks, then the FORBID kills the new ones and any potential eggs they might have laid as well. Spider mites like dry conditions and spin thin layers of webbing on the leaves--typically the undersides. The leaves discolor but do not defore like the leaves in your picture.

I have some hypothesis: I have noted that only certain plumerias seem to attract the mites enough to do any disfiguring damage: leaves with red, purple, or other non-green colorations. My Mele Matson seems completely untouched by mites, yet the red plumie within 10 feet of her needs regular spraying. Reds get it the absolute worst I have noted. Alsol some of the very orange plumies get it too. I must spray them thoroughly and regularly or they get disfigured leaves and often times the tips will turn black and stop growing. Duvauchelle and Kimi Beauty are examples. The dark leaves really get the mites stimulated it seems. Whatever the case, it is factual that many of the more brilliantly colored plumies do have color in their leaves and this does attract mites--the reds--well, there is absolutely no doubt about that fro what I have seen the last couple of years.

An interesting note: Heart of Gold, Miracle Pink, and, especially Gold Coast Peach also seem very untouched, even though their neighbors rubbing branches with them get them from time to time. Not all the Ozzies are like this though as, for example, Solar Flare is a red for sure in that it must be sprayed regularly.

During the driest weather -for extended periods--mite action seems to slow down to a standstill. As soon as regular rains, or, even worse, heavy rains begin, watch out! It seems to stimulate the mites into their frenzied little life cycles.

I am wondering if citrus rust mites and the rust mites I hear mentioned about plumerias are the same or related. Because of this I am speculating that citrus trees on the property may be an attractant to the mites. I would never give up my lovely citrus, but wonder if they are one of the reasons I am out there spraying regularly.

Whatever the case, I just wish I could SEE the little BASTAR%$#&. I have tried with a magnifying glass and nothing...could be maybe because I was looking at a time when they were inactive due to the sprays, but, I wish someone would provide some GOOD, clear pictures of them. I saw a somehwhat decent picutre a while back and posted a link to it on here, I seem to recall. However, this is a subject that seems to be becoming an important topic of discussion these days. It would be nice to have the time to do research and experiments, coupled with rigorous documentation, but I am no scientist and don't have the time to do anything but KILL them and keep them dead. LOL

one more note--even after the mites are gone, their damage can be evident in newly emerging disfigured leaves due to their sucking at the tender buds. Just because your leaves dont't immediately clear up does not mean the mites are back. The tree needs to "grow out" of the present damage by producing new leaves that were not damaged by the mites when they were first emerging.
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#15 User is offline   lopaka 

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 09:47 PM

Brad we have the rust mite problem for sure but his damage could be the dreaded 6 spotted mite..
My dad lives in Cali and that is the mite that gives him problems year in and year out..
Most people are not going to buy Avid or Forbid it cost way too much for the average grower..
Bayer Advanced has work fine for me in the past and so did Orthenex as a cheap method..

As far as your theory goes on what kind of plumies attract mites this might have some truth when the plumies are outside..
In a greenhouse I had 200 different varieites of plumies in there and the mites attack all of them over time..
I was out of town when it happen and they spread quickly leaving no plumie untouch even the variegated ones,
and the species ones too..
I stuck 4 plumies in there that had the virus in them from Thailand and I was a surprise the mites did not seem
to attack them..
I left the virus plumies in there for 30 days in that heavy infested green house and still the mites did not touch them..
In the greenhouse the mites exploded and they had no choice but to infect the other plumies to feed..

I think the mites pick the plumies based on the brix level (sugar content) of each plumie..
Mites seem to attack stress out plants just like the rust so a stress out plumie might have a lower brix content which changes the
chemical makeup of the plant and this is what the mites detect IMHO.
Plumies are made up of 12 hydrocarbons, 21 alcohols, 13 esters, 8 aldehydes plus other good stuff so the makeup can change
in a variety of ways and the mites might sense this or know by taste..
I am sure the adult mite knows which plant is good for her young before she lays her eggs..
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